Jordu and a scale question

Requests! · 2 replies · 1036 views · 2 followers

AJGuitar

almost 5 years ago

Hi Barry,

Would you consider doing a lesson on "Jordu"? The bridge is very challenging to improvise over with the dominant cycle with only two beats per chord. I'm practising the exercises from the "2 free technique exercises" lessons since those are in that format, but it would be useful to get some insight on how to tackle that bridge in a way that doesn't sound so mechanical.

I'd also like to ask if you ever use the scale "Messiaen Mode 3". I've not found much info about it from a jazz perspective.

I'm having a lot of fun learning from your lessons, so thank you for the quality instruction!

Kurt in Austin

almost 5 years ago

I have never heard of Messiaen Mode, but did a quick google and saw it discussed on another lesson site. I have never heard Barry mention it, but there are some scales that Barry uses that are hybrid scales in certain situations.

AJGuitar

almost 5 years ago

It contains both the augmented and whole tone scales. Augmented scale is two aug triads a half step apart, then add another one to get this one, and that also builds the whole tone scale into it. In the Messiaen mode 3 scale formula you then get a whole step and the two consecutive half steps instead of the minor third + half step which makes the augmented scale.

This gives all the harmonic possibilities of those two scales plus it expands the harmony even more. This is what makes it challenging to start exploring without any reference point of how to construct lines from it. It's a nonatonic scale so it's almost chromatic.

This is why I ask if this scale has any relevance at all in a jazz context, or if the chromatic nature of it renders it unusable.

Kurt in Austin

almost 5 years ago

You can pretty much make anything work over a resolving dominant chord (major 7th just needs to be used as a passing tone in context). So I would say to try it out there.

If you're looking to just get some more "outside" sounding lines, check out Barry's playing playing outside lessons. I don't know what level you are, but I'm always a little hesitant to take on exotic scales since I can spend the rest of my playing life on the common ones (major, melodic minor, diminished, augmented, pentatonic, whole tone) and just apply them in different harmonic contexts to get the desired effect.

You seem to understand this one, and if you can easily see it within the whole tone and augmented and you're able to access it easily, it's not a "new" scale, rather a hybrid of two that you already use. I have not spent a lot of time shedding augmented and whole tone scales. Good luck!